Edward John Milner (1837-1902).

 

Nigel McKendrick's Research -

Nigel Ewan McKendrick - nigelmck@shaw.ca
I am the great Grandson of Edward and Rosa Milner of Hartford Manor. My Grandfather was Edward and Rosa's youngest son Geoffrey my mother is Geoffrey's daughter. My mother married William Howell McKendrick of Blackwood Monmouth shire in 1952. My father died in Feb 2009. I have been doing research backwards from me on my family and found your information. I was wondering if you had any more information on the Milner family or where I may be able to find information. Particularly I am looking for information on wills for Thomas Milner of Liverpool who was William Edward Milner's father. My mother inherited a Grandfather clock which was made by Hadwen of Liverpool and I am trying to see if Thomas owned the clock and past the clock through his will down the family line. Of course any other Milner info would be gratefully accepted. I have a family tree with nearly on the names you have mention on it I believe it may have been commission by Rosa as my cousin Sarah in England has a copy but it is much smaller than mine. 4 by 5 feet.

jpb - My interest in mainly the history of local businesses and the industrial revolution. The Milners were influential.
I am particularly interested in establishing the connections to William Milner (1696-1745) of Nun Appleton, Leeds and Thomas Milner (-1736) yeoman of Helsby.
The Cheshire Archives are a good source recommendation for info on the Cheshire Milners - http://archives.Cheshire.gov.uk/default.aspx - for example in the Wills & Probate section you will find a Thomas Milner of Churton Heath who died in 1851, I wonder if this is your man?
Thomas's father, John Milner (1735-1820), a Yeoman of Acton, is also there with his Will.
The records office at Duke Street, Chester will also undertake commissioned research, but an increasing amount of info has been digitised and is available on subscription at - http://www.findmypast.co.uk/ -
I continue to research and I would be very interested in having a copy of your family tree.
Your John Milner (1735-1820), had a cousin Daniel (1764-97) and I have been in touch with this branch of the family - Heather Schofflelen - schoffa.h@hotmail.com - I'm sure she will be interested in your research. Heather alerted me to the 'Barrow' name. 

nem - I printed out your Milners of Acton, Stretton & Moore sheet and it fits right into mine. I am creating a new Milner tree on Ancestry and will give you access to it as soon as I have it more accurate. I tried to do all the families I am related to and that tree is somewhat screwed up. I have started the new Milner one I was working on it today. Interesting point that some of the Milners I have were in Pudsey and went out from Pudsey to the Liverpool / Acton area and to Kent. From what I have researched the Milners had Milner Manor which I have photos of and it is recorded in history of Pudsey it came into the family through the Scot of Calverley, (I went to Calverley and Pudsey in 2010) The Calverley Manor is still standing. I found one of three Milner burial plots on the main path leading to the doors to the main entrance on the left in this photo of St Wilfrid church. I was very fortunate to get a private tour of the inside arranged by the Vicar this photo with cars in front and the gate leads to the Milner tomb up on the right of the path.
The Milner Manor has demolished in the early part of the 1900 think that is right. The Milner Manor was left to a Milner line which went to Kent. However the stylized M which was above the entrance of the Manor house door can be seen at a funeral home but I don’t think it was intend. The building is a funeral home across the road is fish and chip shop (which I had a nice meal at).
I was watching a UK tv broadcast on bbc world and heard about Dr Nicki Milner, she is a UK archeologist, I asked her if she was related to the Milners of Pudsey in Yorkshire. Her reply was very interesting she said no her family was from KENT! I have not followed up on this as I had not read the Pudsey / Yorkshire / Kent connection until after I had emailed her.
I don’t know enough about place names however my Thomas Milner who died in 1807 according to the but his father was John! My John was a gentleman of Acton!

jpb - I look forward to seeing your tree as you say it fits with mine.
You say, 'some of the Milners I have were in Pudsey and went out form Pudsey to the Liverpool / Acton area and to Kent”?
Can you give me a clue about the Pudsey /Acton link?
This is what I have been searching for but never found.
The attached is the main family from 1874 … but no Acton or Liverpool.
Two books which cover the merchant backgrounds of the Milners are -
'Gentlemen Merchants: the Merchant Community in Leeds, 1700-1830' by Richard George Wilson, 1971.
'Merchants and Revolution: Commercial Change, Political Conflict, and London's Overseas Traders 1550-1653' by Robert Brenner, 2003.
I need the Pudsey /Acton connection which you made in your trip in 2010, before I start reading these books!?

nem  -DSC004741 (3).JPG
I just sent you the Milner tree my mother inherited we believe it was originally Commissioned by Rosa Milner from discussions with my mother who met her grandmother Rosa many times before Rosa died. She believed Rosa has entered family names that were direct she did not but in that people had remarried.
Rosa appears to have made four documents one for each of her sons. Sarah Milner (Richmond) of the Charles Milner line has a small one that I have seen and read. Edward Miler had the one I have now it is the largest, Ian Hall (Milner ) of the Dennis Milner line I believe has a smaller one also. John Milner also of Dennis Milner line different wife I believe has one but not sure that may have been a photos of Sarah copy.
I am in contact with Johns children as John died this past summer due to complications from a Fall. Ian (whom I have visited) has an amazing book of twins writing to each other accusing the other of treachery. (this is very interesting it is about the John and Daniel one of them tried to kill their mother and ended up in an asylum) I have photos of the pages but Ian has the original book he actually took it for Johns house two years back.
One of the books in Pudsey was by Simeon Rayner titled the History of Pudsey.
Anyway the Milners at the top of the tree are the Pudsey ones and as you work down you can see Gentleman of Acton start to appear.
Thomas Milner Liverpool died 1807 married to Ann Smith 1803 first son 1804 (you have Ann Walton m 1806!)
John, Thomas’s father was from Acton died 1830 was married to Katherine Clare (his cousin)
Thomas, Johns father was of Torbrook, will dated 1761
Daniel, Thomas’s father was of Gentleman of Acton died 1760, will proved in 1778
Daniel, Daniel's father was of Woodhouses Frodsham, will proved 1717
Wow that is amazing document and it looks very similar to the book I read at the Pudsey library but it is a bit different in key places. Do you have a 3 or 4 mega bit resolution pic you could send me so I can enlarge it.

jpb - many thanks, I received the 3m ‘jpg’ file of the tree.
Clearly showing Samuel of the Pudsey branch married Grace a Calverley girl, and died 1643.
But son John, who married Ellen, was at Woodhouses, Frodsham; Will date 1630.
Frodsham is next door to Acton on the River Weaver.
This is the link I have been searching for.
I have checked the Foster Pedigrees and found John son of Samuel. So it all fits.
(John’s brother was Tempest Milner, ‘famous’ and of considerable interest)
The copies of Foster’s ‘Pedigrees of the County Families of Yorkshire’ 1874 which I sent is available on line.
https://archive.org/details/pedigreesofcount02fost
You can choose which format to access to get the best resolution.
I attach the originals which I downloaded.
I will now start to update my Milner data and try and it straight.
We now have ‘leads’ to much more data which will link Yorkshire wool to Acton and to Brunner Mond chemicals at Northwich.
PS there is some reflection on the flash photo of Rosa’s tree ...
I wonder if this can be improved by a photo in natural light?
more later ...

nem - This is quite exciting for me first time I have been able to do any real work on Milner line with another person other than Sarah and Julie who are the same line so same info. To be working with similar but different is great. Here are some info and photos of Thomas Milner and his wife. I have better pics of the Milner tree it is from Sarah the layout is slightly different but same info.

jpb - thanks for the superb photos of Thomas. Photos add interest to all history.
I’m afraid I move slowly with my understanding but I will try to keep my notes up to date at –
http://www.themeister.co.uk/Hindley/milner_nathaniel.htm
I am focusing on the ‘Gentleman of Acton’ but I will included the important wool merchanting.
I think I have found the start of two crucial branches: Robert’s sons.
The Marmaduke Clan and ‘our’ branch the Samuel Clan.
The ‘start’ of the Acton branch was John who died in 1630 and moved from Pudsey to Frodsham. And he left a will which I attach – 3 pages.
We must transcribe this!

nem - The will just arrived so I am reading right now. I will do my best to help transcribe this. It is difficult it is English from almost 400 years ago. I can read some but with have to really work on this. Have to find an old English translation guide book!! Don’t worry about speed.
PS anyway to make this pages scan at a very high quality it would make it easier to read! In the megabyte range would be best 2 to 3 times the size they are now. How did you get these. As I could maybe go download them at high res if I knew where to find them. l

jpb - to ‘orientate’ your research as a ‘foreigner’ ...
Christopher Greenwood’s map of Cheshire from 1819 identifies the hamlet of Woodhouses close to the Weaver at Frodsham ...
but why did John move from Pudsey to Woodhouses??
Luckily the Will contains an inventory which may throw some light on his activities??

nem - John two things one are you up and about and available and do you have skype on your computer?

I think I have almost two sentences transcribed and translated I will forward what I have soon as I think I have the two done.

jpb - it’s not easy is it!
Daniel (-1717), John’s son also left a will.
This one looks a bit easier? Here’s what I have for Daniel 1717, I guess it is a bit easier but still incomplete ... I think I’ve got the names, no mention of wife Mary ... predeceased him?
Daniel Milner (-1717)
Dated 1710 - In the name of God Amen. I Daniel Millner of Woodhouses within the Lordship of Frodsham in the County of Chester yeoman being aged but of sound and disposing mind and memory (praise be almighty God for this same) I do make & ordain this my last will and testament in manner and form following, first I commend my soul into the hands of almighty God my creator hoping through the mouth of my aforesaid saviour Jesus Christ to obtain remission of all my sins & eternal life and my body I comitt to the earth to be interred at the discretion of my executors herein after named and it is my will & desire that all my just debts and my funeral charges and the Legacy herein after given shall be honourably paid & discharged in the first place and whereof the sum of fifty pounds ought to be payed to imburse my executors at my death by my son Daniel Millner (in ... of ... agreement made between me & him) now in case my son John Millner ... the Lease of the messuage and tenement with appurtenances fro the life of one of the daughters of my son John & the life of one of his my son Daniel's own children & for such other life as he shall think fit & that to my son Daniel ... shall immediately upon the ... of such new Lease ... and assign one full mayely? or halfe of all the said messuage & tenement Lands & premises with the appurtenances unto & upon & to & for the use & behess of ... daughter of my said son John (whole life my said son Daniel shall put into the lease and aforesaid) for & during the term of her natural life and in such case I now hereby assign devise & give unto him my said son Daniel all my tenant right ... & ... in & to all those messuage tenement & premises & due ...Release acquit & discharge him of & from the said fifty pounds & every ... thereof; also I give and bequeath unto my said son John Millner his heirs and assigns all my money ready by me and money out at interest or in the hands of any ... sons whomsoever; and I give loan & bequeath unto my two loving grand children Elizabeth & Margaret daughters of my said son John Millner & their assignes all other my goods rights ... chattells & personal effects whatsoever & wheresoever & of what nature of kind so ever, especially to be divided between them share & share alike after & subject to the payment of my debts & funeral expenses and I do hereby nominate ordain and appoint my loving brother in law Samuel Waine of ... & my loving Kinsman Robert Witton of Netherton executors of this my last will & testament hopeing they will faithfully perform the same & lastly I do revoke and make void all former & other will & wills & testament by me in any ... made in ... whereof I have ... set my hand & seal this ninth day of February in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred & ten.
Signed sealed and published by the said Daniel Millner for & as his last will & testament ... of us who have attested the same in the presence of the other
Robert Lyke Daniel Millner
John Timbooke his mark
Joseph Boar
Nov 2nd 1717
... Executors in ... ...

jpb - From: john p [mailto:jpb@themeister.co.uk]
Sent: 15 January 2014 23:26
To: 'nigelmck'
Subject: RE: Milners
 hello Nigel,
Happy New Year.
We have had a busy holiday period and research work has taken a back seat.
I told you I may be slow!
I have reworked the Hartford and the Acton Milner trees with the info you gave me. Thanks.
I’d love you to check these and correct any typos and add anything ... there are many missing dates at the moment.
I will continue to add to my notes at –
http://www.themeister.co.uk/Hindley/milner_nathaniel.htm
There are still a lot of guesses.
I found a press cutting of the sale of property of John Milner (1735-1820) at Acton from 1820, attached.
And a record of his death 1820? The John Milner will of 1820 talks about Quakers?
And you gave me a date of 1830 for his death?
I can’t think straight at the moment ... help!
((((Thomas Milner Liverpool died 1807  married to Ann Smith 1803 first son 1804 (you have Ann Walton m 1806 !)
John, Thomas’s father was from Acton died 1830 was married to Katherine Clare (his cousin)
Thomas, Johns father was of Torbrook will dated 1761
Daniel, Thomas’s father was of Gentleman of Acton died 1760 will proved in 1778
Daniel, Daniel’s father was of Woodhouses, Frodsham will proved 1717))))
 I also attach a transcription of the will of Robert Milner of Pudsey 1588 from ‘Yorkshire Deeds’.
PS you will see from my notes that Samuel Margerison in 1887 suggested the ‘Marmaduke Clan’ of Nun Appleton were a different branch of the family?

 

Any corrections and additional information gratefully received contact john p birchall

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